May 22, 2024
In today's episode, Mike is joined by guest Daniel Tighe. Withhundreds of millions recovered and over a decade of FloridaProperty Damage Claim experience, Daniel's firm (Tighe PA) isFlorida's leader in claims management in response to Hurricanes.They talk about how Daniel got started in the industry and go on togive insights into the ways insurance companies have changed inrecent years, exposing fraud and much more.
Interested in learning more about Roofr? Get your first roofmeasurement report for free:https://shorturl.at/quCQ5
Contact us :takeoff@ascenddigitalexperts.com
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Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:00.666)
Welcome back another episode of the Mission Control Podcast. I'myour host Mike Stearns. This episode is proudly sponsored by youguessed it, Ascend, Digital Agency, and the team at Roofer. If youneed instant roof quotes, clean and pristine proposals, which willgive your prospects no choice but to buy from you. Make sure youhit up the team at Roofer. There's going to be a description with alink and click it. Let them know I sent you and you'll be happy youdid. We have a very special guest today. Hello, Daniel Ty. How areyou?
Dan Tighe (00:30.51)
Hey, I'm great, Michael, how are you?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:32.794)
I'm doing very well. Thank you for coming on the show. We're verygrateful for your presence.
Dan Tighe (00:39.47)
Yeah, absolutely, it's a pleasure.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:41.305)
Yeah, so you're down in Florida, yeah?
Dan Tighe (00:45.646)
Yep, and it's starting to get hot. We got the summer weatherkicking in. Also means hurricane season getting in the swinghere.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (00:52.923)
Yeah, what is it like 100 degrees there right now?
Dan Tighe (00:57.038)
It feels like probably 105 to 110 and it's not going to let up fora couple months.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (01:02.555)
That sounds f*cking terrible. Once it gets past 85, I become like atoddler that needs a nap. Very frustrated, irritated, and it's notfor me. So I love it for you, and hopefully everyone else that'senduring that heat is embracing it with open arms. It's just notfor me. But then again, you guys don't have the three degreeweather with a foot of snow, so I'm sure that's not for you. It allworks out.
Dan Tighe (01:28.91)
Yeah, that's the old joke is you're not stuck scooping, shovelingsunshine down here, you know?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (01:35.292)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm -hmm. So hurricane season's upon us. So youwork with a lot of contractors. I work with a lot of contractors.And we love contractors. Thank you all for tuning in. How did thatstart?
Dan Tighe (01:50.286)
Yeah, great question. So probably unlike, you know, other lawyerswho got in this field, I kind of discovered it in an interestingway. So I went to undergraduate my master's in business at a smallschool called Rollins College. And my, you know, from there I wenton to UF Law, I went to New York. It was practicing law up therebetween Florida and New York doing some different stuff. And Iconnected with my undergraduate roommate who's still a big figurein the industry, Mike Weckerly. Shout out with C.
CSS, Contractor Supplement Solutions, good guy. But you know, Iwas just catching up with him. Hey Mike, how's it going? You know,great, I'm in roofing. okay, roofing, good, how's it going? Great,sold six roofs this week. Bro, no one's selling six roofs in aweek. You must be doing restoration. And sure enough, he's like,yeah, we're doing restoration. We had a hail storm and I'm like,whoa, hail in Florida. He's like, yup, hail and wind and damagingthese shingle roofs. And...
I just said, hey man, how can I help? I'm a lawyer and he says,well, I don't really know. I said, well, what do you do with yourdenied claims? And he goes, damn, they're denied. What can I do?They're not gonna pay them. And I'm like, bro, I sue insurancecompanies for a living. Let me try one. And that was probablya...
little over a decade or maybe more ago. And sure enough, youknow, I laugh about it and obviously using a little artisticliberty. I had Mike in one ear, the adjuster in the other. I didn'tknow anything about roofing, anything about contracting. You know,I knew contracts well enough. So he's telling me, you got to arguethis, you got to argue that. So I'm working this claim. Sureenough, a couple of weeks later, had the claim paid in full, had myattorney's fees paid separately in addition to the underlying claimvalue. And he did the roof. So it was like everyone was happy. AndI was
I was like, Mike, this is awesome. Like love helping people lovebeing able to work with people that I like and respect and myfriends. How many guys you work with? I work with 40 guys. Great.I'm throwing a happy hour. Let's go, you know, let's see what wecan do. Let's see how we can, you know, help more people. So thatwas the, the humble beginnings and, you know, started out doing alot of small shingle roofs in central Florida. And through theyears was able to build the practice up and, you know, kind oflevel up in sophistication and my understanding and the value Icould.
Dan Tighe (04:03.488)
bring to my valued contractor network and partners and then also tohandling larger losses, more complicated stuff. It's been a lot offun along the way.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (04:17.636)
Love that. So somewhat serendipitous in the beginning, and itturned out to be one of those rare deals where everybody wins andeveryone's happy. And look at us now, thriving. You touched onsomething there that I think is really important. And there's someparallels between what you did and I think what a lot ofcontractors should do. And some do, some don't, but you triedsomething different.
Dan Tighe (04:28.622)
That's it.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (04:40.701)
just by virtue of having conversations with somebody you knew,right? Drove in, tested the waters, worked really well. And thenthe next step that you took was like, all right, I'm having a happyhour, right? So we're doing like a networking event to see how manymore people we could help. And I think the parallel is likewhen...
Roofing contractors have the they have the ability to align withadjacent verticals within their market, right? So whether it's adrywall guy, a landscape guy, HVAC guy, like you guys are allselling the same customer and you can form alliances, refer peopleback and forth to one another if you guys have people you trustwithin your network. So kudos to you to setting up that networkingevent, because as you know, it can be very powerful, but oftenunderestimated from what I see.
Dan Tighe (05:25.71)
Yeah, I appreciate that. And what I look at is part of yourmarketing mix, right? And that's something I'm sure you guys atAscend are, you know, very adept at helping people build out. Youknow, you don't want one channel. You don't want a feast or faminebased on, you know, maybe a storm work or whatever, whatever it maybe. You know, that's so, you know, certainly love that. But alsotoo is finding like -minded people. And then the way you phrased itwas people we can help.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (05:40.443)
Mm -hmm.
Dan Tighe (05:51.054)
And I love that, right? Because that's the mission. You know, atsome point you've done, you know, your successor contract, you'vedone hundreds of thousands of shingle roofs. What's driving you onthe next shingle roof, right? It's not, you know, maybe it's apartially love of the craft or, you know, but at that point, themoney's marginal. You know, really you have to care deeply aboutwhat you're doing. You have to keep in mind that we're literallyprotecting people's homes. We're literally, the work I do, and Italk to my, you know, my lawyers, my staff, you know, we're puttingpeople's, you know, roofs,
over their head, man. This is important, significant work withreal true meaning. And that means that even those smaller claims orsmaller clients or the annoying client who calls every day. Well,listen, what's the mission? The mission is to provide awesomeservice, to provide top in class legal work, but also awesomeservice, right? And help put them back in their home. So this is,you know, we take the work series and I think keeping the focus onthe mission.
is that North Star to make sure you're making the rightdecisions trickling down all the way through your organization.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (06:56.988)
Preach brother preach. I love that.
Dan Tighe (06:59.822)
Thank you.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (07:00.252)
I listen, I am I tell my team, I tell my prospects, I tell mycurrent customers all the time. Like we strive for a couple ofthings. And at the forefront of what we aspire to do is not onlyprovide the best results, but provide the best experience. If I goto a steakhouse, you can give me the best steak that I've ever had.But if I'm waiting 15 minutes for another refill on my water andeverything is just lagging behind and the waitress feel makes mefeel as for the waitstaff rather 2024 waitstaff, I'm sorry, makesme feel as if I'm doing them a favor by paying
patronizing their business, right? The experience is sh*t. I'mnot going to go back there regardless of how good the steak was. SoI tried to look at it through that lens.
Dan Tighe (07:37.038)
100%. I love that analogy.
Love that analogy and I've used that before countless timesbecause it is, it's true. Like you can have that sizzling steakcome out just perfect, medium rare, a little char, you know exactlyhow you like it. But if you get seated by the kitchen and the waitstaff doesn't pay attention, you're going to have a terribleexperience. Not only are you not going to send your friends there,you're not going back. And then if it gets to the point, you mayhave people leaving bad reviews and that sort of stuff. But Iguarantee a steakhouse that's run by a mission driven owner whosays,
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (07:49.052)
Mm.
Dan Tighe (08:09.28)
not serving stakes, I'm providing incredible bonding experiencesfor the people that were fortunate enough that take their time outof their day and spend their hard -earned money here. That guy'snot going to have that experience in his business.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (08:23.679)
That's an absolute fact. And I want to touch on something else yousaid. You said a marketing mix, right? Like we don't want to havedependency on one acquired lead source or marketing channel. And Icouldn't agree more. And I always tell people like, hey, I'm a fatkid at heart. And I look at different lead sources and marketingchannels as like cookie jars, right? And, you know, I want to pullas many cookies out of every cookie jar that I can, right? Bediversified. Don't be entirely relying on one. There's also like afine line of like spreading yourself too thin, especially whenyou're doing like paid advertising.
So in those instances, like it's important to have clean dataacknowledge what's working, what's not, where your leads are comingfrom and then making this database decisions, you know, premisedoff of those guidelines. So that's my piece. Yeah, man. Now I wanta f*cking steak. A nice ribeye.
Dan Tighe (09:10.058)
You're the actor.
You're the expert on that. So, you know, obviously, deferring toyou, but I do love, you know, what you're saying is data driven,right? And I've been down the road with, you know, countlessmarketing agencies really before I got in a, you know, this kind ofroofing niche, and storm restoration niche, I should say. and itwas always, you know, there was never data. It was like, yeah, it'slooks like it's going well or, you know, and I'm a data driven guyand I don't know how you met, how you manage something if you can'tmeasure it. Right. And that's so.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (09:15.966)
Hahaha!
Dan Tighe (09:42.432)
So I appreciate the approach that you take with that.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (09:45.886)
Yeah, some of the stuff is qualitative, but it should be morequantitative than qualitative, especially if you're doing digitaladvertising. Not everything is attributable to say, hey, thisperson started here, and then seven clicks later they finish here.But for the most part, you can do a pretty good job on using datato deduce what's happening, attributing efficacy of differentmarketing channels and what's going on. So that's why I got intodigital marketing. I love the idea that, hey, we can prove value.It's hard to argue with numbers. So yeah.
Hmm. So you started with in central Florida, mainly ShingleRoost, but you've evolved into you're more of like a high end whiteglove service for large loss. Is that accurate?
Dan Tighe (10:29.422)
Yeah, so there was kind of an intermediate step there too. Youknow, I had kind of built this reputation here in Florida and Ireally, you know, what I do is I'm looking for relationships. Ialways have been, I'm the guy who answers his phone. You know, Ilead the firm, but I'm not too big to text someone, call somebody.If a client's having an issue, even though, you know, one of ourassociate lawyers is handling, I'll pick up the phone and make themfeel good. Like totally, you know, like that's, to me, that's justrunning a good business, but also driven by,
you know, my values, who I am as a person, I found a good fithere, where I'm working with people I like, trust and respect, andI don't mind making the extra call. So what happened was I wasworking in central Florida, running a great practice, having a lotof fun, meeting a lot of great people.
And then we started getting hurricanes. We didn't have ahurricane for all, for about a decade here in Florida, majorhurricane. So, you know, there wasn't a ton of action down here.Sure enough, 2016 we had hurricane Matthew, 2017 was the epichurricane Irma, which was a major hurricane swept through Naples,Orlando, you know, and really cause a lot of damage over a hugeswath of the state. And what happened was there, a lot of guysnationwide came down to work this door.
So what do you do if you're a contractor and you're coming downyou don't know the claims game here in Florida Well, you call otherguys who are contractors or you call your guy at ABC supply and saywhat are these guys doing? I was very fortunate because of theinvestment in time and learning that I took You know to kind offigure out this market that when people would ask that question toother Contractors or other people in the industry all of them wouldsay you got to talk to Dan Ty you have to call them And of courseI'd answer that phone man
you know, there were no off hours. Let me put it that way.And,
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (12:17.628)
Yeah.
Dan Tighe (12:19.118)
You know, it was wild. I was driving around back and forth betweenI looked out now in Jupiter, Florida, but you know, Palm Beach,Florida, Naples and Orlando. It was like a three hour triangle andsometimes I do two turns a day for meetings and just try to armguys with the right tools to know how to handle what they wereallowed to handle themselves correctly and then let them know thatwhen they do have those specific claims that they really shouldn'tor can't handle that we're happy to help them out with that andtake that on. So we really built a
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (12:29.468)
Mmm.
Dan Tighe (12:49.024)
a big reputation on commercial and then tile roofing became aspecialty. I actually helped develop some of the better argumentsthat are now very effective and used industry wide. So just havingthat passion, again, going back to who we are, values, wanting tohelp people. If you're a lawyer who just checks in in the morning,checks out in the evening, you don't do that extra work, man. AndI'm sure your listeners, if they work with lawyers, a lot of themdon't answer the damn phone.
You know, so we're different and you know, that's kind of what'sgot us to this place where, you know, we still help some of thecompanies that we started with, with some of the smaller stuff, butwe've now kind of got a network for some of that. And our focusreally is like you identified really on the commercial or moresophisticated high -end homeowner who really needs that white gloveservice. We're not the lowest cost option. We're not trying to bethe lowest cost option. If your, you know, guide to success in howyou choose someone to help you with this.
problem is just how little you can try to pay them. First of allyou're not going to get good results and second of all you're verymuch not a fit for me.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (13:54.66)
Yeah. When did you realize that?
Dan Tighe (13:58.83)
And that may have some crossover to your business, right? Ifthey're just looking to pay the cheapest guy and that's how theydetermine success is finding the cheapest provider, does thatusually work out well for them?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (14:13.307)
No it doesn't and you know there's gonna be a lot to go back tohere in a moment but you know I will have somebody that comes inwith a
with a website that was built by another company and was builtyears ago. And it's just, foundationally, if we're doing SEO, thereare things that need to be intact and developed at the ground levelto give you the best chance for long -term success. So peopleoftentimes, they're not too happy when I tell them, like, well, wewould only do it if we built you a site, because a site'sexpensive, which I understand. But again, you're making aninvestment into somebody that's going to do things the right wayfor the long -term strategy, right? And it's, you know, I wentto
When we've been asked, like, hey, can you do SEO on our site orcan you just revise our site? It's like, you know, I don't know ifyou've got a shingle roof that's 12 years old, maybe it's got acouple of years left, but there's a bunch of damage on it. Like,would you want it repaired? Would you want us just to do a layoverso that those underlying issues are still there and eventually aregoing to make you have to re -rip everything off and put on a newroof? Or do you want us just to do the new roof, right? And we'rejust going to rip it off and do it right the first time. And ifcost is...
If cost obstructs our ability to do that, like that's fine. It'snot always the right time. How, when did you realize that? I know,because it took me a few years to realize this. And I think a lotof roofing contractors even kind of kind of struggle with this.Like when did you realize that like not every customer has to beyour customer?
Dan Tighe (15:38.958)
Yeah, it was a long and I'm not going to lie, somewhat painfuljourney for me at certain times because, you know, like I'm sure alot of business people, you know, I could be considered guilty oftrying to, you know, do too much and maybe not having thebandwidth, keeping up with it. The intentions are always good. I'mworking 24 hours a day. We got the team firing, you know, as muchas we can and all that. But still your ability to sell cansometimes out clip your ability to produce. Right. So.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (15:43.898)
Hahaha
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (15:49.242)
Mm -hmm.
Dan Tighe (16:08.864)
You know, I kind of learned that the hard way. I had a partnershipthat unfortunately didn't work out and we've moved on and rebuiltthings a lot better kind of under my direct supervision to solvesome of these problems, which has been huge pain, but huge blessingin disguise. And you know, when I rebuilt this platform, what Isaid was, I'm going to look first at results, of course, right?Because you're hiring a lawyer, you need top, you know, top, toplegal work. That's going to be first. But second, we're looking toservice. What is the service?
is that experience right? We use our steakhouse analogy. Okay wegot great steaks and we got the chef cooking them up justright.
But how are they coming out? Are we getting people? We want tobuild a business where the experience is so good that we'rebuilding exponential growth in the markets that we want, that wechoose. We don't want to be everything to everybody. We want tospend our advertising and marketing and business developmentefforts wisely where we have a good return. And what I mean by thatis where we're working with the type of people we want to workwith, not necessarily just ROI.
And, you know, so it was a little bit of a painful process.Worked it out and, you know, it is what it is. But, but I thinkwhen I had that chance almost to blank slate it, I said, what do Iwant to build? What's in my heart to build? I don't care. I runthrough walls, man. Like anyone who's working with me knows youcall me any time of day. I'm texting with guys. My poor wife hatesit, but she gets it. You know, you know, these are my guys, right?And I'm looking for a limited number of people who want to sayDan's my guy.
back and have a relationship, obviously, within what, you know,technically not permitted a direct referral, whatever, with thelawyer bar rules, but like a personal relationship, right? If youcall me about something else, I'm going to give you my time andbecause I like and respect you. And so I kind of was able to, youknow, clean slate, rebuild it back with the vision that I wanted.And I'll tell you, it's been awesome. You know, the call we get, welook forward to client calls now. We look forward to, you know,our, our valued contracting partners.
Dan Tighe (18:14.608)
reaching out to us because we know their clients are happy andthey're happy. It's not like, no, what's the nightmare now?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (18:18.874)
Right. Yeah, I love that. I think sometimes...
The way that the roofing industry promotes it, there's a lot ofcoaches, a lot of people screaming from the rooftops, work on thebusiness, not in the business, right? And people become obsessedwith working on it, not in it. And I think that kind of clasheswith the personal touch, right? As you move closer to working onand not in the business, I think people are less likely to engagein those things directly, or even their lower level employees,which is fine, but I too am of the same mindset where, you know,we've got systems, we've got processes, we have a team, and when weonboard a class,
and like after they talk to me for the initial consultation,they go to Charlie and then they work with the team from there. ButI'm always like, you know, don't hesitate to reach out to me. Likeyou have my phone number. I work all the time. I'm sick. I love mysickness. My medicine is working. It's OK. Yeah, for sure. Youknow, so like I always implore people like.
Dan Tighe (19:12.874)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (19:17.53)
Even exactly. I'm like, I don't work at the micro level of yourcampaign every single day. Like Charlie, Ashley, Dan, like thatteam does. But like if you have specific questions that you want totalk to me about, I mean, it's nothing for me to get up to speed,hop in and then have a discussion about it and just be like a truestrategic partner. Because I think like that's what we want todeliver. I think that's what people deserve. And I think, you know,as far as like our competition, I think that's where they lack. Soand ultimately, it makes me feel good at the end of the day. Right.When I've got to stare at this ugly
face in the mirror while I'm brushing my teeth and like are youhappy with what you're doing? Are you doing the right thing? Right?That's our six core values. Do the right thing. Have you done theright thing? I can say yes and then go sleep like a baby. It'sfine.
Dan Tighe (20:00.878)
Yep.
No, I love that. And I mean, what you're talking about there is,you know, it's actually pretty similar to what we do is I'm workingon the strategy, the big picture issues. You know, I'm working onthe, you know, large important client relationship stuff. You know,if you're a follower of EOS, more of the visionary type role, youdon't want me handling the day to day on your claim. I'm not thebest suited lawyer to, you know, be all in on this one claim andget it to the finish line and research the new case law. You don'twant me doing that.
You want me helping you at the intersection of business, law,service, you know, all these great things that I've been able toget good at and combining them to one thing where I'm truly specialat that rather than, you know, and the nice thing is we havelawyers that are amazing.
at that one specific claim and pushing the adjusters and doingthat, probably the same thing like, I'm not hiring you because Iwant you clicking the buttons on the keyboard. That doesn't makesense. And you know, it's funny, just, you know, sometimescontractors are like, wait, you're not my lawyer. I'm like, no, Iam your lawyer. I'm not the lawyer for, you know, filing thismotion on this claim. I know exactly how it works. I developed thestrategy on how we do things. And then we have a team that'sreally
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (20:59.834)
Alright.
Dan Tighe (21:19.92)
dedicated, myopically focused on executing the strategies thatwe've put in place. So now that means, hey good news, you've gotsomeone who's obsessed with it, they're waking up doing it, they'regoing to sleep doing it, and you've also got a guy who doesn't havehis head in the daily grind who can help you work out betterstrategies, help you network, help you grow your business, help youbuild systems and processes that will take you to the nextlevel.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (21:46.138)
All right. Love it. Absolutely love it. I'm glad we're having thisconversation today.
Dan Tighe (21:51.598)
You tell.
Yeah, you can tell I'm a little passionate about this stuff.And, you know, I hope that shines through cause I love it, man. Youknow, there's people who say they haven't worked a day in theirlife. Like even the tough days when, you know, it seems likenothing's going right. You're getting some, unfortunately, some,you know, client problem, this, that, the other thing, like, youknow, at the end of the day, I'm smiling. Like that makes you feelalive, you know, solve the problems, you know, kick the doors in. Igot a good buddy of mine in the industry. We joke. It's like, youknow, like we're shovel guys, right? Like, you know, sh*t, we gotsome.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (21:55.674)
Hahaha!
Dan Tighe (22:23.632)
trouble. All right, where am I showing up and I'm bringing ashovel, bro. Like, let's get to work. You know, it is what it is,man. I don't know what the problem is, but if you call me, I'mthere with a shovel. Let's fix it.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (22:26.682)
Bye.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (22:34.234)
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I...
years back I got licensed to do real estate, not for anythingother than like look for investment opportunities on the MLS andthings like that. And I sold a few houses where it was just like,hey, you just got to list it, do the paperwork and then negotiate,which like negotiating super fun doesn't take much time. But I gotto tell you, even just having to do like the disclosures, like thelead paint disclosure, then the COVID disclosure, the buyeragreement, the seller, I mean, it got, I felt like every minutethat I was doing real estate, I was f*cking working 20. Right. AndI don't feel that in what I do.
I could have a 15 -hour day and don't get me wrong, sometimesI'm exhausted, but I could work two hours in real estate and itwould feel way worse than working 15 hours on what I do everysingle day. I agree. Find something you love to do.
Dan Tighe (23:19.662)
Yep. Well, and I'm sure you've, yeah, I'm sure you've earned thatprivilege too, right? When you started up, you didn't just say,hey, I'm LFA and I have this great staff. Like you got to build it,right? You got to, you know, and I said.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (23:33.658)
We had four people.
Dan Tighe (23:35.662)
You got to take a bite of the sh*t sandwich first, you know, like,and that it is what it is. And likewise, like, you know, that wasmy background was doing, you know, wearing a lot of hats, doingeverything I've done, you know, state court trials, federal trials.You know, I joke now, I'm like, if you see me in a courtroom, mustmean I'm a defendant, man. I shouldn't be in that courtroom.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (23:37.882)
Yep.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (23:54.586)
That's so funny.
Yeah. And you know what it did and I think that a lot of theaudience that's going to listen to this, they can relate with this.It's like, OK, so you start up a roofing company, right? And you'redoing everything. You're doing sales, you're doing marketing,you're doing supplementing, if you're doing storms, you're meetingwith adjusters, you're fighting the claims. You're doing all thismanaging the production, ordering materials. And it's like now whatthat allows you to do and while being baptized by fire, it allowsyou to understand those roles very intimately. Like being a rooferand running a roofing company are distinct.
different things, right? You have to, there's a change ofmindset that has to take place if you're going to eventually besuccessful, especially at scale. And I think when people starthitting like a million and a half, like the one man band owneroperas, they start to realize that really quickly. It's like, f*ck,I got to find some people that I can trust to do things that needto happen. And because I've been, you know, manging on this sh*tsandwich for the last 12 months, I know exactly what needs tohappen in order for me not to be force fed a sh*t sandwich nextyear, right? So it makes them like uniquely qualified to
Dan Tighe (24:27.47)
huge.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (24:56.348)
to not only bring people in, but train them specific to theirmarket and what their challenges are within dealing with theircustomer experience to make sure that what's duplicatable, I guess,is a process that is everything but what they don't want tohappen.
Dan Tighe (25:13.454)
Yeah. I mean, that makes all the sense in the world. And again, we,we like the EOS, you know, traction, Gina Wickman, kind oftraining. We're not strict adherence to it, but you know, we'vebuilt out our own style, our own processes. And, that's kind of,like you said, that's probably the toughest jump is from the guydoing everything himself to getting a couple, you know, employeesor team members, whatever that are, because then you have to thinkyou have to stop and you can't just do, you have to build processesthat are repeatable.
and scalable and that takes a little work. It takes some deepthought. Also, if you're that one man band and you're gettingsuccessful, now the phone's ringing and you got to make this andthen on top of that you got to do all this stuff because and we seethe same thing with law firms. There's a lot of great lawyers outthere who are one man show and as long as you don't give them morethan you know eight claims, they're going to do a great job.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (25:47.514)
little work.
Dan Tighe (26:05.486)
Most likely, whatever, right? They may not have other resources,whatever, not for the purpose of this discussion, but like they'llbe fine until they're not. And once they're not, they're really notfine, you know? And on the other end of that too, and just becausewe're getting into it, you know, there's kind of, for me, there'skind of a sweet spot and it may be similar to contract and maybesimilar to marketing agencies. Once you get too big, you also don'tgive a sh*t.
You know, it seems that way. The experience falters, right?Because the guy with the big name who's been doing it forever, he'son the door. That guy's out sailing, you know, doing whatever thehell he's doing. And he's not paying attention to sh*t. And, youknow, he's got some other three layers of management who are thensaying, here's the experience you want. So there's, I believe justin my experience, there's probably a sweet spot where, you know,you got a solo practitioner probably doesn't have the resources youneed. If they haven't been successful, they don't have theresources. And then if you see some,
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (26:38.169)
Right.
Dan Tighe (26:57.776)
organization scale too big, you're just a number. The relationship,it's more transactional, you know, so it's interesting, like yousaid, watching guys scale from kind of that one man band. Andprobably it helps having a lot of the pressure taken off by workingwith partners like you who can produce leads so that they can atleast not deal with that portion, you know, going out networking orwhatever they're doing, banging doors. They can at least outsourcethat and then buy some time back to work on the other stuff.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (27:27.962)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that I agree with yourpoint, like with scale. A lot of the times you compromise thequality of the experience because there's there's more of adisconnect, right? And there's like small issues becomedisproportionately more burdensome as you grow. Right. And a lot ofthe times it's a reflection of a few things. It's either you lacksystems and processes. You haven't evolved like your systems andprocesses as you continue to grow, because, you know, what worksfor you process wise at a million is going to look different.
than at seven million, right? And then the other side of this,like people, you know, they have these things, they have the boxeschecked, like this is our SOP for this, this, this, I've got theseseven f*cking binders, but nobody managing, actively managing thestaff, holding them accountable to those processes, training anddeveloping those people within those processes. And at that point,what the f*ck are we doing here? Right?
Dan Tighe (28:19.95)
Yeah, and then add to that recruiting, hiring, and training.
You know, not just the managing, getting the right butts in theright seats and you know, how do you even go about hiring and allthat? And again, I've been through all of it. So I laugh coming outthe other end now. And now we've got processes to build processes.You know, but it's, you know, but again, and you and I seem to besimilar in this vein. Like I like working. I'm not going to go siton the beach for, you know, five days like that, which would beterrible for me. I like building. I like helping people. So like Ican look back and laugh at those 15 hour days.
and say, hey, wasn't that fun? You know, at the time it wastough, but wasn't that fun?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (29:01.37)
Yeah, I mean, it's to your point about sitting five days on thebeach, it's so funny. Like even if I, based on my schedule, if I'vegot a day where I don't have much going on, like in theory, I getexcited in the moment. man, I can't wait till Thursday. I'm lightThursday. I've got one meeting, don't got much to do. Likeeverything's caught up and then Thursday comes. I'm like, I gottaf*cking get something done. Like I feel, I feel useless if I'm notgetting like.
I'm an anxious person and my cure to anxiety isn't eatingbenzodiazepine, it's like going out and being productive, getting aworkout in, doing things for work, accomplishing sh*t. That bringsme a level of satisfaction that nothing else can. It's f*ckedup.
Dan Tighe (29:41.39)
Yeah, I know what you're talking about and I definitely feel asimilar way.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (29:45.915)
I envy the people that can sit there for two days and just enjoythemselves. I just can't. I haven't figured out how. Told mytherapist, like, if I have a slice in life, I play my slice. I'venever fixed the mechanics, right? I just obsess over differentthings, right? And it's like work, working out, family. But work'sa big part of that, because it makes me feel really good beingproductive, whatever. And he's like, you should work on that. I'mlike, that's why I'm paying you the big bucks.
Dan Tighe (30:09.102)
Yeah.
Dan Tighe (30:13.006)
I think that's part of the human condition too is, you know, like,and what I, I don't purport to know anything about the biggerpicture, unfortunately. I wish I could share that with you, but Ithink humans, you know, like we're builders by nature. You look atevery civilization, it's always about building, improving, and thenthat aligns, I feel good when I'm doing it. So, you know, this isprobably something towards the direction I need to be moving, youknow, and I, like you, I get a good feeling out of it.
the outcomes are good. The more work you put in, the betteroutcomes you're having as well.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (30:48.187)
Absolutely, love that. So what are some of the challenges thatyou're seeing that roofers are facing right now as it relates tothe things that you guys are doing for them with large loss?
Dan Tighe (31:01.262)
Yeah, sure. So obviously we've had a lot of changes here in Floridaover the past couple of years. Insurance crisis and legislativesessions have been eroding rights of policyholders, which makes itvery difficult to get a full and fair recovery, which then tricklesdown to the roofing contractors or general contractors who aretraditionally restoration based working these storms. It used to bethat these homeowners and policy owners were getting a very fairshake. Right. And if they weren't,
There were some tools that I had as an attorney where we couldlevel the playing field against that big bad insurance company.Unfortunately, a lot of that has been eroded and it really, I usethe word unfortunate, it probably goes beyond that to fraudulent.You see the work that Doug Quinn and his team at the AmericanPolicy Holder Association are doing to uncover systemic corruptionat the very least and fraud, probably a more accurate term betweenregulators, legislators.
and insurance company leadership, but they've eroded a ton ofrights. So getting back to how that works with roofing contractorsand restoration contractors is this business, they don't make theirmoney when they knock on your door. They don't make their moneywhen the claims process is going on. They only make their moneywhen they build the roof and collect the check. So it went from asituation where an insured would have a valid insurance claim,right? So covered peril in the right...
policy period and damage, we'd get them paid out in full or darnnear close to it. And the contractor would be very happy becausethe homeowner or policy owner's happy and they could pay thecontractor with just their deductible or their deductible, a littlebit of contribution capital and get their job done. And that's howthe contractor makes money. What we saw here in Florida was whenthey stripped away a lot of those rights, these contractors nolonger had the ability to kind of sell based on restorationwork.
except in the strongest best cases where they would hope thatthe insurance company would do the right thing, which isunfortunately a somewhat smaller proportion of the time, certainlyless than they should. So it's had a very big chilling effect onthe restoration industry, which of course negatively impactsroofing contractors, general contractors, restoration contractors,but also homeowners. At the end of the day, I'm serving...
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (33:25.177)
Yeah.
Dan Tighe (33:27.918)
the people of Florida. The roofers are serving the people ofFlorida. People are vilifying contractors because it's an easytarget. They're vilifying lawyers because I get it. I don't evenwant to hire a lawyer unless I have to and I am a lawyer. Soanother somewhat easy target as opposed to the good hands of thegood neighbor or the multi -billion dollar marketing budgets fromthese insurance companies who also have the legislature, you know,I don't want to say in their pocket, but certainly veryinfluential.
based on how fundraising goes in politics. So it's kind of beena perfect storm down here. What I'm kind of advising people as bestI can is, you know, it's more important now than ever to make surethat you're doing things the right way. You're going to be watched,right? You've got to make sure you're, you know, crossing your T's,dotting your I's. You're doing things the right way. You're notsaying things that are illegal to say now. You're not givingcontracts out that are viable.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (33:58.233)
Sure.
Dan Tighe (34:27.776)
the law that carry with it penalties, you can't just do thatanymore. Whereas for decades, people got away with just runningkind of like a, you know, run and gun style of business. Now weneed to tighten up a little bit. You know, so that's, that's beensome of the bigger changes, which ties into some of the work thatI'm most excited about is we actually acquired a law firm that islicensed in a number of other southeastern states, and we're goingto expand our presence. We're going to expand our
We should have Colorado and Texas, then Minnesota and Arizonaset up hopefully this year, but we want to do it right. And again,looking at relationships where we have good people that we like,trust and respect with a relationship of familiarity and trustwhere we can advise what to do, what not to do with people whoactually listen. They don't just try to do what they think is goingto make them the most money in the short term. That's unfortunatelykind of a common scenario.
in roofing and restoration.
And then just building out these processes, which is what Ienjoy best. And I think one of my biggest strengths is, you know,building them, building the processes, literally saying, Hey,here's your claim process after 14 days, send a letter like thisafter, you know, seven days after this, send a tickle letter, youknow, pull the adjuster license information, all these differentthings. And I can set the processes up and almost hand it off tothe guys that we like and trust who we want to work with. And thenthey can take off, pair up with someone like you to feed the leadsin one end.
They've already got the process and system, run it withaccountability, and boom, man, you're off to the races. So I'mreally excited about doing more of that work. That's what I'm mostpassionate about. And that's, again, kind of based on some of myexperiences here in Florida, some of the market changes, some ofthe business relationships I have changed. And that's really kindof pushed me to launch this new model, which we are just so excitedabout.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (36:29.179)
Yeah, I can feel the excitement. I absolutely love that. So.
Dan Tighe (36:32.142)
You're sorry, that was a lot.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (36:34.747)
No, it's fine, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. I've seenthe narrative that, you know, roofers have done this to themselvesover the years, putting in fraudulent claims, manufacturing damage,all these different things have led us to the point where theinsurance companies are tightening up for these reasons, right? Howbig of a role have these actors played, do you feel, in policychange versus the other side of it, which is, you know, potentiallyfraud, corruption, et cetera?
Dan Tighe (37:01.774)
Yeah, I mean, I know specific to Florida best. Obviously, that's mymarket. And first of all, when you say devil's advocate, it's tothe insurance company. It's not to me because I agree with you,brother. So, you know, so we're on we're on the same team, right?So, you know, a lot was made about fraudulent actors, bad actors.And the worst part is they do exist and they're very public. Someof the biggest companies.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (37:10.406)
Hahaha!
Dan Tighe (37:25.55)
you know, we're taking money from lawyers per claim and they would,they would literally sign up anyone. They mislead little oldladies. Like it was happening, right? My argument is the insurancecompanies were in the best position to see who was doing it and toturn that over and to prosecute it, right? That's what we do. Ifsomeone commits a crime such as fraud.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (37:43.865)
Hmm.
Dan Tighe (37:48.59)
It's a crime. We already have laws that prosecute bad actorscommitting fraud. Well, why didn't they do that? Right. Well, thereason they didn't do it is, number one, they're disjointed andeveryone thinks these insurance companies are a lot more organizedthan they are. Maybe some of the big state farms and some of themare very more sophisticated. In Florida, there's a lot of what arecalled takeout companies and beyond the depth of the time we havehere for this podcast. But these were groups of businessmen who getbooks of business from citizens.
or just do some networking and marketing. These were notsophisticated insurance entities. They were buying policies, buyingreinsurance on them. And they got caught with their, you know, thelittle joke is when the tide goes out, you can see who's swimmingnaked. Like I mentioned earlier, these.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (38:34.553)
Yeah.
Dan Tighe (38:36.43)
In Florida, we didn't have a hurricane, a major hurricane for abouta decade, right? So these insurance companies were just getting fatand happy. They were racing to the bottom in terms of what they'recharging for premiums because they wanted more of this risk. Right.So then when the storms inevitably started, this is Florida, man,we're going to have hurricanes. When it inevitably started turning,right, the luck ran out. These people were not positioned, thesecompanies were not positioned properly. They had not properlyunderwritten their risk, which is the
is the fundamental of what insurance is, risk pooling. So, youknow, what they did was they looked for easy scapegoats. So gettingto the question you asked directly, right? Is it better if I'm JoeMegabucks on my second yacht in the Florida Keys to say, you knowwhat, I f*cked up.
Is it better for that guy to do that or say, we're losing moneybecause of fraud. And it's all these low life roofing guys. Look atthem. They're jerks. They're this, they're that. You know, likeit's just such an easier thing for them to do. There was noaccountability. Heritage, a big insurance company here in Florida,just got fined $1 million. You know how much $1 million means tothem? The CEO made 20 last year.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (39:36.378)
Convenient scapegoat. Yeah.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (39:49.018)
Probably not much of them.
Dan Tighe (39:52.462)
Right? You know, like it's unbelievable how little oversight thereis. So I think it was a convenient scapegoat. And the worst thingis this was the Florida play. This was the Florida program. If youare a restoration contractor listening to this podcast, it'scoming.
They figured out the playbook on how to further leverage theirmoney, right? They risk pool, they invest it, right? And if youhaven't watched it and you're in this industry, Warren Buffetttalks about why he bought Geico and puts it succinctly andperfectly, just like he has a knack for doing, of how much moneythey make investing other people's money.
You know, the float, it doesn't, it's not even their money. Mostof us, a lot of it should have been paid out, but they're stillinvesting it. So, you know, if you, if you're in a different state,you're going to start seeing the Florida model roll out to yourstate. And of course I'm pretty active as you are in social mediaand some of these groups, I see the common complaints against, youknow, like, it's in, you know, everyone in, you know, Minnesota, noone can get an, XYZ insurance company claim paid. They've turnedoff the spigot. And then the next month it's some other.
other company and you know and what I try to keep in mind andwhat I wish you know we as a community could keep more you knowfurther in mind would be that ultimately it's the policyholdersthat are getting screwed it's not us you know it hurts our businessmodel it's not good for us either but ultimately this is someonewho's paid insurance so that they didn't have to save money torepair their property in the case of a catastrophic event or maybeyou know whatever everyday loss you know and they're the
the ones who now have to figure out how to finance it. And, youknow, we're still, roofers still going to build roofs, man. Lawyersstill, you know, there's still going to be denied claims, coveragedisputes. People are still going to need lawyers. We just have tocharge more, right? You know, when we lose some leverage withattorney's fee shifting and, you know, we have to spend more moneyunderwriting cases. So it changes the model, but ultimately itdoesn't affect my life and lifestyle that badly. The people thatreally hurts are the people who are counting on those proceeds tobe able to put their life back together.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (42:00.25)
Yeah, it's got to be a really tough position to be in as ahomeowner, I'd imagine.
Dan Tighe (42:06.222)
Yeah, we're getting calls, you know, we get calls weekly, you know,people and they say, well, if we're using this money to pay you,how do we get a roof put together? And, you know, they're right.It's not fair. The law in Florida used to be that you'd getattorney's fees in addition to your underlying claim to offset thecost of having to hire a professional. They took that right away.And in states where that still exists, they're coming for it. Instates where AOBs exist, they're coming for it. In states where badfaith exists, they're trying to make it, you know, morestringent.
to prove bad faith. We just saw too, there's now a model publicadjusting bill that they're trying to introduce the insurancecompany lobby as the anti policyholder, anti.
public adjuster and anti restoration lobbies, right? Funded bythe insurance company is trying to push nationwide adopted adoptionof a new bill that, you know, hard caps fees for public adjustersthat has all these other stringent requirements. So, you know, it'snot all doom and gloom, right? If you're a restoration contractor,it's still one of the greatest recession proof, great business, youknow, good margins when done well, you're helping people still agreat business, just, you know,
It's just getting eroded as probably a lot of businesses arethese days.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (43:26.428)
Yeah, I hear that. What's one piece of advice you'd give to aroofing contractor that operates on this model?
Dan Tighe (43:34.446)
Yeah, I mean, I think the best advice I would give is is kind ofjust general business advice, right? It's not even necessarilyclaims. It's just realize that things are fluid, right? Justbecause you're running this business and you're hitting theserevenues, you know, this year doesn't mean the business model isn'tchanging, right? All of a sudden, supply houses are charging more.All of a sudden, the laws change and this, that. Also, you get astorm in your market. That's a good thing. So don't be static inyour thinking. You know, build a team of people. Again, I'm big onrelationships.
Relationship, you know, I'm I talk to guys all the time that Idon't even work with, you know Maybe they only do smaller shinglestuff and I I just I'm not a good fit for them But I still talk toall the time. I'm happy to do that I know you're very generous withyour time and kind of build a community of okay, you know Even ifthey're not using a sin, but they're doing something I'm sure you'dtake a call if they said hey, you know, hey man, like our cost perclick went through the roof You know, do you mind just chat with mea little bit about why that happens? You know that sort of stuffkind of
build a little community, realize that things are going tochange. You know, nothing static, everything's fluid all the timeevery day. You know, so kind of look out to the future and thenbuild that team that you can, you know, you know, get those shovelready guys like, you know, sh*t, this market just collapsed for us.Boom, let's go man. Next market. Let's roll. You know, build thatteam of people that you're in the fight with.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (44:57.82)
I love that. A fluidity mindset. It's a beautiful thing and verywell put. What questions you got for me, bro?
Dan Tighe (45:06.062)
Yeah, I would say, you know, kind of the same question to you islike, where, you know, we've had some nice conversations aslawyers, we have some restrictions on what we're able to say andhow we're able to communicate things. We have to run advertisem*ntsthrough the bar. It's very difficult to do any sort of directmarketing. But if I was, you know, a roofer or a publicadjuster,
My biggest question is, because guys ask me this stuff, what'slike the first thing, obviously there's no silver bullet, you know,very obviously, what's the first thing that they should do?
Like where's the initial?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (45:44.092)
We open up a new roofing company tomorrow.
Dan Tighe (45:47.918)
Maybe, if I get good advice.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (45:50.365)
So if that were, assuming that would be the case and we're openingup a brand new roofing company, the first thing that I would dowould be to figure out like who I'm servicing. I would get myGoogle business profile set up.
claimed out to make sure that people can start to know about us,that we can post content on that Google business profile, we canget reviews for happy customers. And prior to that, I would assumethat we've developed some sort of understanding, not only who ourcustomers are, but how we're going to acquire customers in thebeginning. So some companies will open up a roofing company andthey have money from an old venture, they come in with some sort ofbudget as far as marketing and advertising. Other guys are like,hey, I'm a subcontractor all day, and at night I'm going to startrunning
my own leads that I'm going to generate or on weekends andthings like that. So I guess depending on like what the context wasas far as that's concerned. But I would certainly get a GoogleBusiness Profile up, fill out all that information, services,products offered, things like that. Google Local Services, that'sthe best thing to ever happen to contractors in my opinion. You geta fixed cost per lead. It's usually like 60 to 80 bucks for roofreplacement leads.
And it's great because you set it up, you be thorough about it.They have like a little mini CRM where you can document if youbooked a lead or if it's a disputed lead or what have you. They'repretty good with disputing. One piece of advice I'd give with localservice ads is if you're going to be a Karen and dispute every leadthat's not a roof replacement, they're probably less likely toposition you towards the top. If every time they're giving you anopportunity, like I want my money back. There's a lot of peoplethat will pay for that without that friction to Google. And Googlemakes a lot of money off of ads.
ads and it's a very under priced cost per lead. If you compareit to like the home advisor, Angie model or like even Google ads.If you can satiate your appetite for leads for your sales reps justwith local services, just do that. Don't pay a marketing agency.Right. And then I would figure out a website and you know whetherif we had no budget, I would do it on like a Duda or Wix. And whatI would do is I would look at site structures from like marketingagencies that
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (47:58.609)
get really well endorsed based on the work and the sites that theybuild. And I would kind of mimic their site structure and createcontent in a way similar to what they do so that I have an ideathat I'm in the right place and on the right track versus creatinga four page website, you know, with, you know, just a bunch ofscattered content everywhere that nobody could ever find. Causeultimately Google's going to read your website. They're going tocrawl your website and they're going to, they want it to beintuitive. They want the user experience to be good because thebetter that is, the more people are going to come back and themore
more people come back, the more they can charge, you know,roofing contractors for their ad campaigns, right? Higher cost perclick because we have more eyeballs. So think of it when you'rebuilding out a website, your site map or the collection of URLs issimilar to like the index of the owner's manual in your truck,right? You have all these different categories or subcategories.It's very intuitive. It's alphabetically ordered. And then there's,there's, there's sub subheadings where it's like oil, oil pressure,right? Okay. Oil change. I need to know what kind of oil I need formy oil change. So you go to oil.
I know you'll change it's this page, this paragraph that'ssimilar to how like your site map should be when you're building awebsite. It should be like residential roofing services. roof stormdamage. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Roof repair, roofreplacement, roof inspection. Right. So we make it very intuitive.And that's what I would do if I didn't have the budget to hiresomebody else is I would find a company that has a good website andto kind of start to mimic the things they do and do it on a very, alower level design capacity because it's going to be a drag anddrop builder. So we're not going to have the flexibility from thedesign side.
but structurally, it's gonna be set up very well. Long -winded,but that's what I would do.
Dan Tighe (49:32.238)
Yeah, that's, no, listen, that, and again, my wheels are turning alittle bit. I'm joking, I'm not saying I'm a roofing company, butthe Google My Business, I'd imagine that lends some credibility andthen having the website. So that's not only just kind of marketing,but it's also, you know, if those homeowners, you knock the doorsor you get introduced by a property manager, they come and theylook for you online. It looks professional. I'm sure there's valuethere too, right?
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (49:57.054)
Yeah, well because, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna take a controversialtake here, but homeowners don't trust you, roofers. They don't. Andthat's okay, because you, roofers, don't trust marketing agencies.I always say I'm uniquely qualified to empathize with you, becauseI know how it feels. So like your website is, what's that?
Dan Tighe (50:06.542)
Yeah.
Dan Tighe (50:14.254)
Well, fortunately everyone trusts lawyers, so I don't know whatyou're talking about.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (50:19.282)
So like, but your website is like your first, usually going to beyour first, your first interaction, your first opportunity for animpression. And it's like, what is the...
What do they feel? What resonates with them when you land andyou're going through the site? Can they find what they need? How isit presented? I can say the same thing a thousand different ways,and you can interpret it a bunch of different ways based on mytone, my inflection, my non -verbals and all that. We have lesswithin communication when we're just doing a website, but likecustom design components, where things are worded, headingstructures, things like that can influence how somebody's going toengage with your website, and it's ultimately pretty important.
Dan Tighe (50:58.318)
Yeah, and you're kind to give such a valuable starting point. ButI'm sure the idea of simply going to someone who you do theirdigital, they do a great job, mocking their web page versus all theback end stuff work that your team's doing, I'm sure there's just amile of difference.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (51:19.933)
There's a gap, right? But if we're trying to start off and we'rebeing pragmatic and we're saying, okay, this is our budget, this iswhat we do, okay, we can't afford to hire a web design company. Soif our starting point is a four out of 10 as opposed to one out of10, that's a huge win. And maybe we can get it to a five byourselves. The further down the road that we can get on our own,the better position we're going to be long term. So when we alignwith a strategic partner, we're not starting from absolute zero,right? Or the closest thing to it, which is,
what happens a lot of the time. And as I sit here and I thinkabout the question that you asked me, another thing that I would dovery early on, a lot of the smaller companies, you know, they don'thave conversations about cooperative advertising with theirmanufacturers because they think they're too small and they're notready. It's like, no, have that sh*t day one and try to hold youryour preferred manufacturer accountable to like some sort ofpaygate as far as like volume of shingles you're purchasing andwhat you can expect. There's a reciprocal relationship there.Right. The more shingles you're purchasing, the more you're
the better off you're doing, the better off your homeowners aredoing if you're installing a quality product. Ultimately, thebetter off you should do and there's mutual benefit for you sellingmore. I don't think manufacturers are eager to offer to go out oftheir way to say, hey, we'll do more for you because just like anyother business, I'm sure they have a regional budget or territorybudget and it's usually going to be squeaky wheel gets the grease.But try to get some sort of expectation of like growth. Hey, like,hey, we want to go from a million to two million to three millionover the next 24 months, assuming we hit the
this benchmark each of these next two years, we're going to bepurchasing this many squares. Like, what could you do to assist inthis? We're going to invest more into marketing and advertising.What can you do to help us? Right. And a lot of the times early on,they might say, hey, but to start you off, we'll do your truckwraps for you or we'll pay 50 percent of your truck wraps. Right.And if I'm a day one business or I'm early on in my business,that's a huge help. It's a few thousand bucks. Right. So leaninginto that more of that relationship stuff that you were talkingabout, developing that relationship, having expectations.
Dan Tighe (53:10.094)
Huge way. Yeah.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (53:19.405)
of one another. I think foundationally is really important to thesuccess of any relationship really, but especially with like yourmanufacturer, supplier, and other strategic partners in thespace.
Dan Tighe (53:29.742)
Bro, that is...
Day one, so valuable. I'm going to start taking that and tellingmy guys, people who call me, you know, the nice thing about roofingtoo is you often get guys who are in a sales capacity or productioncapacity, then they roll off and start their own entrepreneurialventure, which I think is totally cool. I know one guy out ofOrlando has been doing this. He's like the OG in Orlando of it. Andhe's spawned from guys who left his company, probably like 30 localcompanies, right? And, and he treats them well. He doesn't, youknow, he's great. Go get it, do your thing. And I just.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (53:54.842)
Mm.
Dan Tighe (54:00.576)
I think that's such great advice though. Some of these guys,they're like, Hey, I know I can do it, but where do I get started?And I've got probably two or three guys in mind that I've known foryears who did spin off separately. And I'm going to call them thisafternoon and be like, bro, go get your trucks or after, you know,call your rep, you know, and get your trucks or after get them tospend a little bit for you. Cause I never even considered that.Like you said, if you're a small guy, just starting, you know,they, they should be inclined to, you know, help build thatrelationship and inspire some loyalty.
from you, assuming the products are good, you know, inspire someloads. Hey man, we were there from the beginning. You know, we'regoing to sit down. We're going to try to make this successfulbecause a win for you is a win for all of us.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (54:40.698)
Yeah. I've been party to these conversations and have helped movethe needle significantly in some of these conversations where likea manufacturer is like, we don't have a structured deal. That's nothow we do things. And it's like, okay. So what I did is like, wewent over CRM data and what our marketing and advertising strategywas. They love to know that, you know, your numbers, right? Weird.Like we know what it costs to acquire a customer lead, a job. Weknow our gross, our net profit. So like we've, we've got a systemhere and this is how we're scaling our business. This is what we'retrying to scale too.
This is what you guys are currently doing a lot of the timesThey're just gonna say upload it to the portal and we'll do what wecan right and kick you a few hundred bucks for yard signs or thisor that You have to force the issue and especially if you're ayounger company talk about the lifetime value of you as a customer,right? You know, if you're if you're 33 years old, you've been inbusiness for two years But you're showing year over year growthleverage that any positive indicator that you're heading down theright path It increases the level of confidence that it's going tobe a sound investment. I don't care who you are when you'reinvesting
You want to make sure you're putting your money and you'rebetting on the right pony, right? Show them that you're the rightpony. Scrape up any bit of data that you can to frame it in a waythat makes you undeniable, and you'd be surprised how much morewilling they are to acquiesce to say, okay, maybe we can make anexception for you, and we'll lay out a structure to where if you doX amount by this date, we'll do this. If you do this much, we'll dothis, right? And then that way, you have something to lean into asfar as goal setting, accomplishing, and growing. So.
Dan Tighe (56:09.678)
Dude, that's dynamite. Yeah, I like, I mean, I like mine. I'msitting here like mind exploded. You know, like.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (56:11.322)
Thanks man, I appreciate you.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (56:16.57)
Hahaha!
Dan Tighe (56:19.15)
I'm just literally, I'm like excited to, you know, not to wrap upwith you, but to get a chance to call these guys and like, bro,have you negotiated with your supplier to help you out with some adspend? So I think that's also indicative of the type of guy you areand the type of organization you run where you're not gatekeepingall this stuff. You're making time. You're networking with peoplein the industry. You're running this podcast, which, you know, it'snot, not a lot of work for me. I showed up, I'm in my home officehere, turn my laptop on, spin my office chair around. Not a lot ofhalf for me, but.
You know, you invest heavily in it and you know, this is valueyou're bringing, taking time from your life, taking time away fromthe important work that you do, other important work that you do.And you know, it's indicative of the type of guy you are. Iappreciate you doing all this and I can't wait to pay it forwardwith some of this fire advice, man.
Michael Stearns | Ascend Digital Agency (57:06.297)
Yeah, man. I appreciate your time as well. Thank you to all of youwho that have tuned in. Make sure you, you know, mash that sharebutton and just share with somebody who some of this stuff wouldhelp. Shout out to Rufor. Appreciate you guys helping make thishappen. And that'll we're out for the day. So see you. Yeah,dude.
